One suggestion that has been made is a time penalty.  It is well known that we are happy for but frown on 11 second Runs in the #14.  Even though setup and calves play a big part in 11 second Runs, many Ropers in that division can't compete no matter the setup or calves.  The suggestion is that if a Roper in the #14 stops the clock in anything less than 11.99, a 1 second time penalty will be added to his time and he will become a 12.99 (in the case of 11.99).  If a Roper stops the clock in less than 10.99 in the #14, a 2 second penalty will be assessed and that time will become a 12.99 as well (in the same case).  In this case, a 11.01 will become a 12.01, and that would be a hard time to beat.  All other Handicaps and Penalties would still be assessed and they would be assessed first.  The Time Penalty would only come into play if the Final Time was less than 12 seconds.  In the #13 Roping, the cutoff time would be 11 seconds, (all 10 and 9 second Runs would be Penalized).  The number #14 cutoff could be set at 12 or 12.5 depending on response.

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For whatever it's worth I feel like penalizing someone for a great run is detrimental. Go rounds pay more than one hole. If you are not there thinking you can make go round winning runs, rope smart and win something in the average. No one in these ropings are going to be 4 11 second runs so the average will be easier to obtain than the go rounds if the go rounds get tough.
I have been a proponent of setting a monetary amount that if you obtain then you would be eligible to be moved. Meaning if you go to a 14 roping and you are on the gain as far as talent, after you've won a set amount of money the board would look at you for movement into the next higher class. I believe this would take away a lot of the confusion over how and why a person gets moved. A lot of the young kids can tie one fast or maybe even two in one roping. So if they show up to a particular roping then they know and everyone knows what that dollar amount is. If they win it all at one place in their first roping or over several then so be it. We should all be trying to encourage everyone to win. I don't want my kid not trying to improve. You won't improve if you aren't roping against people who push you. Penalizing people for raising the bar isn't fair to anyone.

I don't know how easy this would be  and especially on such short notice, but using the original numbers might be something to think about. The down side would be it would affect the whole system. What about the guys in the 12+ that tie one in 8. I am not complaining because I am not in that division but how long before that becomes an issue? As for the 14 and 13 this new system sounds feasible. Just my two cents.    RDF

The problem with your idea, in my opinion, is that your rounds will be won with the "same " times. If the top three or four places are under 12 seconds, then those will split the entire round pot. This may not happen at every roping but i can see it happening at your bigger ropings. I think you need to take the "setup & calves" out of the equation. Now days, all of the ropings are pretty much the same setup with pretty much the same calves. I've said for a long time that if someone ties a calf 2 seconds faster than the roping they are in, they should be moved. Maybe after that roping & maybe just for a set number of ropings. If they don't fit, move them back. There should be a system in place where you bacically move yourself. If you tie a calf under a certain time, you know that you are getting moved for a while. No crying & arguing about small calves, short scores, I don't win much, ect. I thought that was kind of the general idea going into this season but that changed very quickly. If you can tie a calf in the 11-12 second range, you are NOT a 14 roper no matter the situation. The same goes for the 13. There should never be a calf tied in 9 seconds in a 13 roping & I'm not sure that a calf should be tied in 10 in a 13 roping. I know that we all want to have a chance to win but the fact is, there is a top & a bottom of every division. The problem with using the money won idea, would be the people that can only make it to 5-7 ropings a year. If they have a good day at one of the bigger ropings, they're going to be moved prematurly. I also don't think this is something that should be decided on in a rush just to appease a certain number of people. Again, these are just my thoughts & are not targeted at any one person or division. I aggree that if there is something set in stone so to speak, it will make it more enjoyable & easier for everyone.

 I agree with the commits made by Josh Haws. Anyone more than 2 seconds faster than their number should be moved. Also, handicaps on ropers should be published on the time sheets for each roping so that everyone knows who is getting the handicaps and who isn't. This would help in understanding why some ropers that tie an occasional 11 are not moved, but they would certainly be evaluated to have their handicap reduced or removed.  A more concrete rule would help the entire rating system and not just a select few.

As far as the rounds having too many guys splitting the pot I have two thoughts off the top of my head:
1) If someone has time added to there run, they would be ineligible for the go-round money for that round only, but stilleligible for the average.
2) pay the go-rounds off the unadjusted times and the average off of the adjusted times.

Just brain storming. I don't know if anyone would think these are good ideas or not.
With all due respect to Wayne, why don't we put Bernie Sanders in charge and we can start taking from the fast and giving to the slow. I doubt any one of you would vote for a rule like that if we put it into different perspective. The fact is that you don't want anyone tying a calf in the 14 roping in 11 seconds but you better be a low 12 second run to win the round in that roping. Meaning if I tied one in 11.99 then I net a 12.99 and the guy who ties one in 12.01 beats me. Let's put that in perspective. I make 99,999 dollars a year and I get to keep 70 percent but if I make $1 more then I only get 60 percent. Then it becomes beneficial for me to work hard but not hard enough to reach my full potential. I don't think many of you would like this in your politics or in sports. Say if I was on a baseball team and if we scored 10 runs in an inning then we got to keep all 10 runs, but if we scored 11 then that run went to our opponent, then there is no beauty in having a great inning. I don't understand this mentality. I remember one time the Houston Oilers giving up the biggest lead in a playoff game to the Buffalo Bills because they stopped playing hard when they got the lead by so much, then when Buffalo started to come back, the Oilers couldn't turn it on again. To me it made no sense that they ever turned it off when they got the lead. It's not about emberassing the opponent, it's about never learning to give less than your best effort. If you don't agree then I think we will learn to play by whatever rules you put out there. I just don't see how penalizing someone for giving their best effort is for the good of the sport. I've seen the way the older guys talk and gather up when I bring my son to the ropings. The last thing I'm going to say is I've seen an older gentleman rope one by a back leg and tie him without getting him up and win go round money because he got time off his run. He bumped my son out of a go round check when my son roped the neck and flanked his calf and made a smooth run closer to the chute. Where is the justice in rewarding that man for roping a leg and being slower but removing time from his run. I'm going to close by asking is calf roping coming to a point when everyone needs a trophy, or is it going to be a cowboy sport where people strive to make the best run against each calf they draw?
I give Wayne props for the hard work he's putting into the association. I believe he is trying to keep a level playing field the best he can. To me bumping someone just because they tie one fast once doesn't seem like the answer. I don't think anyone would like that if the shoe was on their foot. Handicapping has been around along time and is a useful tool. Glad I'm not the one who has to make all these decisions. My hats of to Wayne and everyone else for all their hard work.
I don't envy Wayne one bit. I think he does a fine job! I also think that if you cull those 11 second runs in the 14 & those 10 second runs in the 13, there won't be as many short 12 or 11 second runs in either roping. You have to start somewhere that's fair to everyone. If you know the time "limits" in each roping & choose to go rope to keep from having your number changed then so be it. If your capable of tying a calf in 12.01, your going to tie one in 11 something eventually & it will all work itself out. I'm one of the guys that this could effect buy the way. So I'm not suggesting anything that's going to benefit myself. In the end, it's impossible to make everyone happy. You just have to do what's best for the association & the sport.

I think something good has to come out of this just because it  shows the association is paying attention, and, asking for input from the ropers is not a bad thing. I hope everyone takes the opportunity to voice their opinion without getting abrasive. Josh is correct  with the statement about not pleasing everyone. Honestly I still struggle with a roper tying one in 11 in a #13 roping but I may be way off base. The way I see it times are slower in the early rounds because most ropers start to be an average roper, in the later rounds calves have slowed some and guys are going for broke to place in a round. I still contend a ropers number should be how fast he can tie a calf. I have known several guys who couldn't rope 4 in a row but if they got it around one's neck they could be 7. Now the question at hand I believe when you go to adding 1 or 2 sec guys will get with the program or quit coming.



Josh Haws said:

The problem with your idea, in my opinion, is that your rounds will be won with the "same " times. If the top three or four places are under 12 seconds, then those will split the entire round pot. This may not happen at every roping but i can see it happening at your bigger ropings. I think you need to take the "setup & calves" out of the equation. Now days, all of the ropings are pretty much the same setup with pretty much the same calves. I've said for a long time that if someone ties a calf 2 seconds faster than the roping they are in, they should be moved. Maybe after that roping & maybe just for a set number of ropings. If they don't fit, move them back. There should be a system in place where you bacically move yourself. If you tie a calf under a certain time, you know that you are getting moved for a while. No crying & arguing about small calves, short scores, I don't win much, ect. I thought that was kind of the general idea going into this season but that changed very quickly. If you can tie a calf in the 11-12 second range, you are NOT a 14 roper no matter the situation. The same goes for the 13. There should never be a calf tied in 9 seconds in a 13 roping & I'm not sure that a calf should be tied in 10 in a 13 roping. I know that we all want to have a chance to win but the fact is, there is a top & a bottom of every division. The problem with using the money won idea, would be the people that can only make it to 5-7 ropings a year. If they have a good day at one of the bigger ropings, they're going to be moved prematurly. I also don't think this is something that should be decided on in a rush just to appease a certain number of people. Again, these are just my thoughts & are not targeted at any one person or division. I aggree that if there is something set in stone so to speak, it will make it more enjoyable & easier for everyone.

Wayne,

This is Stephen Perry.

I think this is a good idea.  Ricky Canton is using this system and it works well at his ropings.  I am one of the ropers that ropes at the majority of your ropings and I see the problems that you are having.  The ropers that are not in favor of this system may need to be moved up to the next number roping!

This is FW Lynch.
Thanks for giving us an opportunity to respond, Wayne.
My thoughts are that the best solution is to truly enforce the rule that you put in place at the beginning of our new year. As Josh Haws and others have said, ropers who tie calves faster than two seconds from their number should be moved for five to six ropings and then could be reviewed.
This should, of course, apply to all numbers since there are too many instances where times to place in a round are all two seconds faster than that number roping.

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